He sounds like an abuser. Glad you stood your ground. If he's willing to punish you for not letting him control you then imagine how much worse it would have been down the road. Fuck that friend group. They sound godawful.
I know for some chronically suicidal people, thinking about who would find them and the impact it would have on them is a way they counter the impulses.
When Nathan Verhelst chose legal euthanasia in Belgium in 2013 it didn't seem to change anything. She'd had three unsuccessful SRS surgeries. She clearly had serious mental health issues. She was her parents' fourth child after 3 boys and the BBC said they rejected her as they had wanted another boy. Oh the evils some parents do 😥
“Dutchess Lois” is wrong to involve the public in his decision. It's irresponsible as he could trigger other people. I've had 3 suicides in my family. It's not something that should be treated lightly.
MAID is being 'suggested' for many people with more difficult to help medical problems--go to #disabilitytwitter, you'll see. easier for the govt to dispense with them. after profit has been extracted by less than competent MDs. this is not an isolated situation.
additionally, your POV in the video is interesting and less usual. i've known three people who did eliminate themselves. all men. all with significant long term mental illness. two with personality disorder imho. those two had very significant medical problems they needed help with, tho did not always take good advice offered. both didn't take any other practical advice friends offered. just complained. refused psychotherapy. i and friends tried to help them. the third, a highly successful corporate entrepreneur, had made multi-millions, in retrospect clearly with hidden severe depression, maybe bipolar. not a complainer. i liked him a lot--smart, sweet. easy to see in retrospect how he was reaching out. he's the only one i felt the most self-recrimination about. it took me a while to realize i could have done nothing. NONE of them accepted psychotherapy or medication.
you are suggesting that the govt is pushing MAID to get organs? many of these people are ill with conditions that would not make their organs acceptable to transplant. they're just expensive people.
the people i've been hearing about are those with difficult autoimmune and/or neurologic disease. not infectious probably, though not guaranteed. rather than d1e with MAID, they're trying to get nuanced, high level care with appropriate biologics with regular monitoring, and in at least one case public housing accessible to them, and canada will not provide that.
the US doesn't have anything like the Canadian MAID program, which i'm broadly reading is actively approaching ill and disabled and unhoused people. i do hear anecdotes from disabled people in the US that individual doctors have approached them.
And yes the person in my case claimed that he could not afford therapy and had tried every psychiatric medication and yet another time said he'd never tried any psychiatric medication due to factors outside his control. After that point, I got really angry and cut contact. I thought it would be temporary. I was just pissed off and tired of trying to absorb his pain. 2 weeks later he was gone.
And now you help others by pointing out that when someone threatens suicide, that is an abusive emotional manipulation tactic. Thank you for sharing your experiences. It helps those of us that have also lost people feel not so alone in grief.
Do you have a source for this? I think most organs would be damaged by the drugs and choose to die outside a hospital. Do be a donor one must die in the hospital to be on or immediately put on support.
I am the only one that I know of drooling at his organs & have contacted him to let him know.
Damaged organs aren't necessarily unfit for transplant. As long as they're still functional they might be considered transplantable if the alternative is that the other patient dies tomorrow. It can buy someone time to get a less damaged organ even if it's not ideal. I know someone who experienced brain death at home but was able to donate several organs despite his history of multisystem organ failure from sepsis which also would have damaged the organs.
The source says that cancer patients cannot be organ donors
If a person has a random cancer but is getting made because they're really depressed then probably they'd be more likely to be able to donate their organ than someone getting made because they're about to die of severe cancer after a lot of treatment.
I was around someone who threatened suicide quite a bit. At the young age of 21 it was terribly stressful. Belgium is really playing fast and loose with euthanasia. I wonder how this will all play out when people come to their senses about the trans cult.
This plays into the "trans" suicide narratives, which family members have been narcissistically abused by, with complete collusion of the medical/therapeutic complex. (meaning, pharma)
You are so right, Ex. We will have to protect ourselves from this manipulation. Thank you, Ute
(I've experienced this manipulation from a cross-sex ideating --former-- husband)
Had an ex boyfriend who shared his suicidal ideation with me. I felt incredibly responsible since I was in my early 20s. Took me years to cut my losses and get rid. AFAIK, he never followed through - thank God. I'm annoyed that I didn't cut my losses earlier since he made legitimately no effort to resolve his own issues or seek qualified help in any way.
I had an ex who would talk about how he had impulses to drive into oncoming traffic but I didn't answer the clue phone until he drove unsafely with me in the car because he was angry with me over some shit.
So irresponsible! The fact that so-called mental health professionals broadcast the suicide narrative like it was a folktale we all must know is one aspect I will never stop feeling furious about.
In my early 20s my suicide idealating boyfriend threatened 'marry me or I'll kill myself'. I felt so responsible for his feelings I married him. I knew everyone around me was thinking why are you marrying that guy? But his emotional manipulation was that strong I threw my life away, thinking I was doing the right thing. It didn't change anything, the threats continued and I was trapped in his emotional hell hole. I had to get out to save myself and he did it after I left so I would feel guilty for leaving him. Why did he have to torture me like that if he was going to do it anyway?
I'm very sensitive to the threat by trans supporters of 'dead daughter/ living son'. This is an emotionally abusive and cruel tactic used on loved ones to try and get their own way.
As well, they feel they are justified in continuing this emotional blackmail on society. It is the way of pathological narcissism. I love Ex's story about the effect the speech training had on her--she realized her androgynous appearance made it harder for the patients in stroke recovery or working in the speech setting post injury or other event, and she decided they did not deserve the additional confusion. Tell me if I have that right, Exulansic! Ute
It was more that I felt the costume and the binding and the monitoring of everyone's use of gender language and all that was more of a distraction to me. I don't mean to suggest that there's something unethical about a trans person working as a speech therapist, all else being equal, but since I got therapy, it was no longer helpful to me to be in costume all the time which is what I had begun to feel like. I stopped consciously attempting to somehow look like a man and started just trying to look like myself which happens to be a woman.
Thanks! Other than the wealthy doctors, and some male nurses who use the identity think to be up close and personal with female patients, I've never heard of a "trans" individual occupied in a non-ideological helping profession role. The commitment to monitoring others' speech is an interesting side note.
I am glad you got out of there and so sorry that you ever married him. This is such a terrible thing to do to another person. I understand depression and despair, but adults owe it to themselves and their partners and family to seek help and not drag another person down with them. (The threats do not work on me anymore. My 'emotional blackmail' button got pushed so often that it broke, it only makes me really angry)
About 20 years ago one of my employees committed suicide--in my shop. In.My.Shop. Young, healthy, a good climber. I mourned her but will never forgive her.
I have had many threaten suicide during evictions or even just tenancy discussions. I have lost a few friends this way but still show no concern at all and ask them to please do this somewhere else so that I may avoid paperwork. I doubt seriously any were serious but it's not like we stayed in touch. I almost always return deposit with keys but when told the funds would get enuf h to take him out I made him wait the 31 days the law allows.
PS And another one decided she was trans and used her grandmother's inheritance to have a double mastectomy. Another healthy young Dyke ruined for delusion.
Value your perspective. It struck me as a bit of a manipulative thing to do as well, frankly. I have a hard time trusting trans people, even the detransitioners, because a lot of them seem to have narcissistic or Cluster B personality traits, and some lie quite easily. Isaac is a prime example. That said, I don't want a single one of them to get hurt and I want all of them to have a safe therapist to turn to.
A woman on Spinster quit drinking when she said she realized it was PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE SUICIDE. I found this concept enlightening and meaningful. I am very sympathetic with people who have serious addictions, but I've also realized they are very entitled in that they think they can do whatever to themselves and it does not affect anyone else.
I waffle between thinking persons with suicidal ideation are sincere and horribly in pain or manipulative. I knew a couple of people who committed suicide. The reaction from friends and family was overwhelming anger. Do they deserve it or are they also helpless victims. Here in a Canada severe mental health issues may be agency for MAID. I think it is valid. Can severe mental health be viewed as a terminal illness?
Life is a terminal genetic illness. If your quality of life isn't rapidly and irrevocably deteriorating, if your pain is manageable with medication even if it's constant and chronic, if you have more than a few good days left, it's probably not time to traumatize everyone who ever knew you.
even mental illness is usually treatable *with high quality psychiatry support and quality medication management and intensive psychotherapy.* it's not cheap. so what. everyone is valuable. if canada doesn't think so, let the canadian government mount a public service announcement campaign to let all citizens know they pay taxes to a health support system that's ready to throw them out once they're vulnerable. just say it.
He sounds like an abuser. Glad you stood your ground. If he's willing to punish you for not letting him control you then imagine how much worse it would have been down the road. Fuck that friend group. They sound godawful.
I know for some chronically suicidal people, thinking about who would find them and the impact it would have on them is a way they counter the impulses.
If ever you feel like typing up more about what ya learned, Sam, I would save it to read it more than once.
Its like that movie Never Let Me Go, when they complete at the end. Looks like they found a way off the train in the MAiD system.
When Nathan Verhelst chose legal euthanasia in Belgium in 2013 it didn't seem to change anything. She'd had three unsuccessful SRS surgeries. She clearly had serious mental health issues. She was her parents' fourth child after 3 boys and the BBC said they rejected her as they had wanted another boy. Oh the evils some parents do 😥
“Dutchess Lois” is wrong to involve the public in his decision. It's irresponsible as he could trigger other people. I've had 3 suicides in my family. It's not something that should be treated lightly.
MAID is being 'suggested' for many people with more difficult to help medical problems--go to #disabilitytwitter, you'll see. easier for the govt to dispense with them. after profit has been extracted by less than competent MDs. this is not an isolated situation.
Because they're harvesting their organs.
additionally, your POV in the video is interesting and less usual. i've known three people who did eliminate themselves. all men. all with significant long term mental illness. two with personality disorder imho. those two had very significant medical problems they needed help with, tho did not always take good advice offered. both didn't take any other practical advice friends offered. just complained. refused psychotherapy. i and friends tried to help them. the third, a highly successful corporate entrepreneur, had made multi-millions, in retrospect clearly with hidden severe depression, maybe bipolar. not a complainer. i liked him a lot--smart, sweet. easy to see in retrospect how he was reaching out. he's the only one i felt the most self-recrimination about. it took me a while to realize i could have done nothing. NONE of them accepted psychotherapy or medication.
you are suggesting that the govt is pushing MAID to get organs? many of these people are ill with conditions that would not make their organs acceptable to transplant. they're just expensive people.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/canada-performing-more-organ-transplants-from-maid-donors-than-any-country-in-the-world-1.6234133 FYI cancer patients can be organ donors.
the people i've been hearing about are those with difficult autoimmune and/or neurologic disease. not infectious probably, though not guaranteed. rather than d1e with MAID, they're trying to get nuanced, high level care with appropriate biologics with regular monitoring, and in at least one case public housing accessible to them, and canada will not provide that.
Evil what they're doing
I have been told this is not the case in the USA and have been medical poa for 2 now deceased people both lost to cancer.
the US doesn't have anything like the Canadian MAID program, which i'm broadly reading is actively approaching ill and disabled and unhoused people. i do hear anecdotes from disabled people in the US that individual doctors have approached them.
And yes the person in my case claimed that he could not afford therapy and had tried every psychiatric medication and yet another time said he'd never tried any psychiatric medication due to factors outside his control. After that point, I got really angry and cut contact. I thought it would be temporary. I was just pissed off and tired of trying to absorb his pain. 2 weeks later he was gone.
thats so tragic. i'm sorry that happened to you.
Thank you. It took a long time for me to forgive myself and recognize he had hurt me, not the other way around.
And now you help others by pointing out that when someone threatens suicide, that is an abusive emotional manipulation tactic. Thank you for sharing your experiences. It helps those of us that have also lost people feel not so alone in grief.
Ouch. 🙏
Do you have a source for this? I think most organs would be damaged by the drugs and choose to die outside a hospital. Do be a donor one must die in the hospital to be on or immediately put on support.
I am the only one that I know of drooling at his organs & have contacted him to let him know.
Damaged organs aren't necessarily unfit for transplant. As long as they're still functional they might be considered transplantable if the alternative is that the other patient dies tomorrow. It can buy someone time to get a less damaged organ even if it's not ideal. I know someone who experienced brain death at home but was able to donate several organs despite his history of multisystem organ failure from sepsis which also would have damaged the organs.
The source says that cancer patients cannot be organ donors
https://www.voanews.com/amp/canada-leads-world-in-organ-donations-from-euthanasia/6926402.html
However the source says that they can be if the cancer isn't spreading
https://amp.cancer.org/treatment/survivorship-during-and-after-treatment/long-term-health-concerns/can-i-donate-my-organs.html
If a person has a random cancer but is getting made because they're really depressed then probably they'd be more likely to be able to donate their organ than someone getting made because they're about to die of severe cancer after a lot of treatment.
I was around someone who threatened suicide quite a bit. At the young age of 21 it was terribly stressful. Belgium is really playing fast and loose with euthanasia. I wonder how this will all play out when people come to their senses about the trans cult.
I'm sorry to ask, but what is MAiD?
Medical Assistance in Dying i.e. physician assisted suicide.
This plays into the "trans" suicide narratives, which family members have been narcissistically abused by, with complete collusion of the medical/therapeutic complex. (meaning, pharma)
You are so right, Ex. We will have to protect ourselves from this manipulation. Thank you, Ute
(I've experienced this manipulation from a cross-sex ideating --former-- husband)
Had an ex boyfriend who shared his suicidal ideation with me. I felt incredibly responsible since I was in my early 20s. Took me years to cut my losses and get rid. AFAIK, he never followed through - thank God. I'm annoyed that I didn't cut my losses earlier since he made legitimately no effort to resolve his own issues or seek qualified help in any way.
I had an ex who would talk about how he had impulses to drive into oncoming traffic but I didn't answer the clue phone until he drove unsafely with me in the car because he was angry with me over some shit.
So irresponsible! The fact that so-called mental health professionals broadcast the suicide narrative like it was a folktale we all must know is one aspect I will never stop feeling furious about.
In my early 20s my suicide idealating boyfriend threatened 'marry me or I'll kill myself'. I felt so responsible for his feelings I married him. I knew everyone around me was thinking why are you marrying that guy? But his emotional manipulation was that strong I threw my life away, thinking I was doing the right thing. It didn't change anything, the threats continued and I was trapped in his emotional hell hole. I had to get out to save myself and he did it after I left so I would feel guilty for leaving him. Why did he have to torture me like that if he was going to do it anyway?
I'm very sensitive to the threat by trans supporters of 'dead daughter/ living son'. This is an emotionally abusive and cruel tactic used on loved ones to try and get their own way.
As well, they feel they are justified in continuing this emotional blackmail on society. It is the way of pathological narcissism. I love Ex's story about the effect the speech training had on her--she realized her androgynous appearance made it harder for the patients in stroke recovery or working in the speech setting post injury or other event, and she decided they did not deserve the additional confusion. Tell me if I have that right, Exulansic! Ute
It was more that I felt the costume and the binding and the monitoring of everyone's use of gender language and all that was more of a distraction to me. I don't mean to suggest that there's something unethical about a trans person working as a speech therapist, all else being equal, but since I got therapy, it was no longer helpful to me to be in costume all the time which is what I had begun to feel like. I stopped consciously attempting to somehow look like a man and started just trying to look like myself which happens to be a woman.
Thanks! Other than the wealthy doctors, and some male nurses who use the identity think to be up close and personal with female patients, I've never heard of a "trans" individual occupied in a non-ideological helping profession role. The commitment to monitoring others' speech is an interesting side note.
I am glad you got out of there and so sorry that you ever married him. This is such a terrible thing to do to another person. I understand depression and despair, but adults owe it to themselves and their partners and family to seek help and not drag another person down with them. (The threats do not work on me anymore. My 'emotional blackmail' button got pushed so often that it broke, it only makes me really angry)
i like this term, 'cross sex ideating.'
Thanks. It is more accurate and I came up with it. Ute Heggen
About 20 years ago one of my employees committed suicide--in my shop. In.My.Shop. Young, healthy, a good climber. I mourned her but will never forgive her.
Damn I would be so pissed.
Yep.
I have had many threaten suicide during evictions or even just tenancy discussions. I have lost a few friends this way but still show no concern at all and ask them to please do this somewhere else so that I may avoid paperwork. I doubt seriously any were serious but it's not like we stayed in touch. I almost always return deposit with keys but when told the funds would get enuf h to take him out I made him wait the 31 days the law allows.
PS And another one decided she was trans and used her grandmother's inheritance to have a double mastectomy. Another healthy young Dyke ruined for delusion.
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-4
Value your perspective. It struck me as a bit of a manipulative thing to do as well, frankly. I have a hard time trusting trans people, even the detransitioners, because a lot of them seem to have narcissistic or Cluster B personality traits, and some lie quite easily. Isaac is a prime example. That said, I don't want a single one of them to get hurt and I want all of them to have a safe therapist to turn to.
A woman on Spinster quit drinking when she said she realized it was PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE SUICIDE. I found this concept enlightening and meaningful. I am very sympathetic with people who have serious addictions, but I've also realized they are very entitled in that they think they can do whatever to themselves and it does not affect anyone else.
The first time a man tried to control me with his threats of suicide I was 16. Sixteen years old.
There's been many since then.
I waffle between thinking persons with suicidal ideation are sincere and horribly in pain or manipulative. I knew a couple of people who committed suicide. The reaction from friends and family was overwhelming anger. Do they deserve it or are they also helpless victims. Here in a Canada severe mental health issues may be agency for MAID. I think it is valid. Can severe mental health be viewed as a terminal illness?
Life is a terminal genetic illness. If your quality of life isn't rapidly and irrevocably deteriorating, if your pain is manageable with medication even if it's constant and chronic, if you have more than a few good days left, it's probably not time to traumatize everyone who ever knew you.
even mental illness is usually treatable *with high quality psychiatry support and quality medication management and intensive psychotherapy.* it's not cheap. so what. everyone is valuable. if canada doesn't think so, let the canadian government mount a public service announcement campaign to let all citizens know they pay taxes to a health support system that's ready to throw them out once they're vulnerable. just say it.